232 | A Writers' Assistant Roundtable, Pt. 2

As promised, here is part two of our writers' assistant dive. We chat with Anthony Musella, writer's assistant to Rodney Barnes, who's known for some of the most subversive shows and movies of the last 15 years, such as The Boondocks and Winning Time. Anthony dives deep into what it's like working in development with one of Hollywood's busiest creatives.

EPISODE TRANSCRIPT:

Jeff: Hey everyone, just a reminder that if you have not listened to part one of our Writers' Assistant episode, go back and listen to that first, because it leads right into this episode with Anthony Musella. We hope you enjoy it. Thank you so much to Maggie, Jonathan, and Lauren for joining. We now, as I mentioned at the top, have kind of a different kind of Writer's Assistant.

And we're really excited to dive into it. He will get more into detail as to what it means, but Anthony Musella is a screenwriter who writes both TV and film, and for the last two years, he's been working as a writer's assistant at HBO under award winning writer and producer Rodney Barnes, who's known for such shows as Everybody Hates Chris, My Wife and Kids, HBO's Winning Time, The Boondocks, and more.

Outside of his assistant work, Anthony's also been hired to write multiple features and currently has multiple of his own projects at various stages of development. Anthony, thank you so much for being here. 

Anthony: Thanks for having me. This is awesome. 

Lorien: All right. Welcome to the show, Anthony. It's awesome to have you.

So, we were talking before we went on air about all the different kinds of writer's assistants there are, and that I theorized that perhaps it has to do with where that apostrophe in the word goes. So, we just talked to writers' assistants who've been writers in the room, and that's S apostrophe, as they call it.

As far as I've been able to understand and then I've recently hired an assistant to help me with my scheduling and I also occasionally bounce creative ideas over because she's a writer, and she's really smart, and she's a writer's apostrophe s, right, but it's primarily for me admin, but also some creative, and then you're a writer's assistant, which is apostrophe S, because you are doing creative development work with a showrunner, right?

Anthony: Yes, that's correct, yeah. 

Lorien: So in a writer's room, you're an assistant to the writers, collect all of them. Is that right? Is that why that apostrophe is at the end? 

Anthony: It must be. I mean, before the gig that I have now, I actually worked on a pilot that Doug Ellin, the guy who created Entourage, I was his assistant on a pilot.

And for that one, he was the writer with one other guy. And so I was kind of both their assistants on that, so that was a little bit more traditional writer's room, I guess. But yeah, for Rodney, it's just, it's just me and him. Winning Time, the second season, it was a little bit of working with some of the other writers.

But again, mostly just him. And then now because we just have everything in development, it's just us doing the creative work. 

Lorien: Which is what you described, which is different than the showrunner's assistant, which is mostly scheduling, wrangling, maybe a little bit of research, right? So that's a different gig than what you're doing, right?

Even though you're working with a showrunner, but it's creative. Can you talk a little bit about the kind of work you do with him? 

Anthony: Yeah, yeah, for sure. It's mostly, like I said, like we're in development right now on both like movies and TV. HBO is just TV stuff and for all of it you know, he's brought projects whether it's IP based on books or or just ideas. So a lot of the stuff that I've done is actually based on books and stuff.

So it's just reading the book, doing a bunch of outlining and research outside of the book as well. Picking his brain and seeing how he is wanting to kind of structure it. Whatever story he's telling and then help him try to get an outline to a place where then he can go in and really dive in having all the information at his disposal.

So yeah, I mean, it's, it's like having a writer, a writer's partner. I mean, he's doing all the writing, but it's me kind of just listening to what his vision is and doing what I can in the research side of things and then also the structure side of things to try to get it to a place where his vision is kind of there and he has all the information that he needs to do the creative work.

Lorien: So practically speaking, let's run through a scenario. He's I got this book. It's amazing. I love this book. And he gives it to you. Is he asking you to do, read it and give me coverage? Is he saying read it and then let's talk about it? He has a book. What are you doing? Practically speaking? 

Anthony: Yeah I mean it depends on the project.

Sometimes he'll say read it, take notes, and then we'll meet. Sometimes I'll just read it and just take really really in detail notes to to get it all out. I mean, I usually just take really detailed notes either way. But I think it depends because some projects, he might have already read the book.

So he kind of has an idea and gives me an idea of going into it. Sometimes he hasn't read it. So, it's kind of me going in and I know that he will read it, but I don't have as good of an idea of what his vision is. So, it really depends on the situation, but typically it's read it, take notes, get him something to kind of look at and see what he's feeling, what he wants to pull, stuff like that.

And then we'll meet in person for a dinner or something, have a more in depth conversation about what the sort of like act structure, if it's a movie looks like, or, or the, like a pilot breakdown or a season breakdown even, of what it'll look like. So that's kind of like, the initial process of, of starting a new project.

Lorien: So you have taken notes, he's read the book, he's read through your notes, you go out to dinner and he starts to talk about like his take on it and are you like asking questions, are you just a sounding board to like verbally process and say this is what I heard you saying, are you giving story ideas like what if this or what if that because you know him so well, what is that conversation looking like?

Anthony: Yeah, again, I mean, it's dependent. I think you guys have for sure talked about it. It's like knowing your place and like knowing when's the right time to give a note or an idea. So I think it, you know, it's finding that mix for sure. Depending on where we're at in the process too. But yeah, no, he's, he's really good.

I mean, almost every time that he sends me pages, he asks me what I think and for thoughts and stuff. So yeah, and over time, getting to know the way that he writes and stuff more I know, kind of, based on how it's going, what he would likely change and what he wouldn't. So sometimes I might have a note, but it just might not make sense.

So, you know, you keep that to yourself. And then sometimes I have a note that I won't leave me alone, so I'll bring it up, and sometimes he incorporates that, sometimes he doesn't. So yeah, it's really cool and collaborative, and he gives me the ability to definitely voice my opinion and And give him notes and ideas and, and looking and seeing that sometimes get incorporated.

And then even like a studio exec, like being like, I really liked that part and me having a tiny little percentage to do with, to do with that. I mean, it's really cool. And yeah, he, he gives me kind of, the ability to definitely not shy away from, from at least making my voice heard a little bit in regards to the creative process.

Lorien: And by pages, you mean he's like in a script, he's in a pilot, and he's hey, look at this, and are you looking, are you doing like proofreading, or are you really looking at it for story does this track, is this earned, or is he just saying, look at this, and let me know your general overall thoughts.

And I know it's different for every project, but what are some examples of what that might look like? 

Anthony: Yeah, no, it's both. I mean, usually the thoughts are general. We're, by the time we get to writing, we know what the story is, and sometimes we have to break it, obviously, but most of the times we know kind of what point A, B, C, all the way to the finish line is.

So we're, most of the time, on the same page. There's been a couple times where I haven't known what direction he's going in. So that's a completely different sort of process. 

Lorien: That's so awkward, right? Where you're like, I don't get it. 

Anthony: Well, it's just hard it's like we, like you guys say all the time, it's kind of like, sometimes you don't know the beginning until you finish.

Right. So watching somebody else do that sometimes it's hard for me to see something that he's writing up front and how that's going to pay off. But again, it's a different type of learning and seeing kind of his process. So it's really cool, but yeah, most of the time we generally know where, where we're going.

So it's, it's pretty easy. And just again, like sometimes these small little things of, " Hey, I think if you add this, this will be a better payoff," or, "This seems like really not tracking," or, "I don't really see the point of it." Stuff like that. I mean, yeah, it really depends on, on the project, but it's anything from a minor line note to, "I don't know what this scene is adding." So yeah, it's just, it's just that process, like the normal process of, of writing. And then on top of that, yes, it's like proofing and making sure everything is, you know, up to, up to par and stuff. 

Lorien: Yeah. So, he has an overall, right? Which is, which means what exactly? Explain it to our, those in the audience who don't know what an overall is. 

Anthony: Yeah. Yeah, so he has an overall deal with HBO on the TV side. So that pretty much means that he's locked in with HBO for TV projects. He has movies going on at various places around town. But he's only working on TV with HBO, is pretty much what the overall deal means.

And then I was a part of his second step in the overall deal, so he like got a one year deal, and then it got extended, and with the extension he got a second assistant, which was me. 

Lorien: That's awesome. That's awesome. And so what do you think is, I mean, you know what a writer's assistant in the room does, right?

What do you think is like the primary distinguishing difference between other than that apostrophe placement? What, how does the job differ in like fundamental ways?

Anthony: Oh yeah. It's, you know, it's interesting cause I have never really met anybody else that's had a job like I've had this so it's been yeah, it's been like kind of uh interesting and and really great. I mean I've learned a ton and Rodney's awesome. I think you know hindsight's 20-20, but sometimes I kind of wish that I had the in-person nature of meeting other writers and stuff like that in the room. 

But then, you know being able to work remote, some days I'm busy, some days I'm not. The days that I'm not I get to write my own stuff and you know, so yeah, hindsight's 20-20. I mean I would say the biggest difference is like traditionally you hear the kind of trajectory of a writer's assistant, a script coord, and then maybe a staff writer.

There's shows that have been interesting because the one that we're working on now, like Rodney's just writing all the episodes, so it's not, there's not even ability for me to be staffed. So it's hard for me when people ask, "Oh, do you think he'll, he'll staff you?" And and again he's, he's great.

And I truly believe that he trusts my opinion and, and knows that I, you know, I'm a good writer. But there just hasn't been that opportunity. So I would say the trajectory maybe isn't the same. 

In regards to there's that structure in place in a normal writer's room. I don't have that as much because again, it's just me and him and developing and there's no saying that they're gonna say yes to all the work that we're doing too. So it's yeah, it's a little bit different. But again, invaluable and like amazing. I'm learning a ton from just watching him develop a show from the ground up pretty much.

Lorien: Yeah, I imagine that so much of what you're learning working with him is informing your own writing. Not, not the, not the process, but like how you're developing, what questions you're asking. Like it's such a great opportunity to sort of be in the room with that. Like how somebody develops a show, what pieces you need.

Like it's, it sounds really cool. 

Anthony: Yeah. No, no, it's great. I mean on both the TV and movie side and you know, I get to sit in on all the notes calls and see the notes that are coming in and then how he incorporates those notes in real time. So yeah, I mean, it's really just watching the entire process of... from like even an open writing assignment to getting the job to then sending in the first draft, notes calls to then incorporating the drafts and also finding, you know, learning that mix of the studio execs want this, but you don't want to lose your voice, so how do you compromise and find that happy medium, and just watching him navigate that as well.

Again, just all from the ground up, I mean, yeah, it's really, really cool to see you know, not only the writing process, but also kind of the business behind it, how much goes into just getting this one thing made, because it doesn't matter how good your draft is. Somebody's gonna have notes and it's gonna change.

Lorien: Yeah, I think it's such a unique perspective that's so different from the in the room writer's assistant. They're not like that trajectory you're talking about. I don't know that that exists anymore. Right? Yeah, it is. It's, it's a strange time right now, right? So it's like certainly not a guarantee.

And they don't, they get to sit in on notes calls with the networks or the execs and they're not building a show from the ground up. They're working on a show that's already exists and has been, unless you're building it in the room like I do. But you know, it's not the same. It's a totally different experience.

And I think both are so valuable to get to see how things are made. I think if, if someone has an opportunity to do a job like yours, I think it's, it would be amazing. You know, you're getting to see something. I think you have a really great perspective that not a lot of people have, you know, you're riding in the car with the person like, here we go.

We're going on an adventure together, right? So I think it's really cool. What, what do you wish you'd known before you started that job?

Anthony: Oh a lot. I still wish that I knew more. I would say to, I guess just be, like, confident in, you know, I've grown so much as a writer since even starting with him, but to just be confident in my ability to, you know. If I have a good note, give it, and then also the sort of, you know, not taking things personally if you feel like you're not heard or something, which you guys have discussed a ton on the show, of in the writer's room, a lower level writer kind of know your place.

I think just you almost have to learn that through the process of doing, and, and whoever you're working for and understanding, again what notes they'll take, what notes they won't, when's the right time to give the notes, with where you're at in the writing process It really is a thing to figure out.

So, I would say just to not take things personally with the job, and then also with just the industry in general. 

Lorien: So hard though, because it is personal and it feels personal, right? It's you know, it comes from our brains and ourselves. I mean, it's good advice to have some kind of shield and you can have the emotion of it and you can process it and then you have to move on, right?

But it definitely I got a big no a couple weeks ago and I cried. It felt personal. It was personal. And then I had to like, very quickly okay. I had my moment. I'm moving on. So I think that conversation is really important that yes, you can have the feeling about it, but don't get stuck in it, right?

Mourn it or put it, you know, so it's good. And also the way we stopped talking about baby writers and started to refer to them as emerging writers was really powerful for me. So we're not going to say, know your place anymore. We're going to say, read the room. 

Anthony: Yes, that's the good... 

Lorien: My place is where I decide my place is right.

So I get to sit at the table. There's always a spot for me. I take up a lot of room, but I do have to read the room. And I think that that is important. So we're going to, you're my lesson opportunity. We're not going to say no, your place anymore. They set up in the other segment too. And it's nope, we're not doing that. Cause that diminishes us. As if it's our responsibility to figure out what our place is according to someone else's hierarchy. I'm so sorry. You're on “Lorien McKenna Yells At You.” Welcome to the party . We're now reading the room. That's great. Gotta read the room. We're not doing know your place anymore.

I've said it like 18 times. I'm gonna stop saying now, but yes, you've been on an episode of “Lorien McKenna Yells At You.” So you should feel really special about that . 

Anthony: No. Yeah. I like, I like that. That is a good way to, to phrase it. Yeah, I think also just so early on in my time with him figuring out that balance.

Again, you guys have talked about it, but if you want to be a writer, you have to write. And even though I'm doing on a day to day basis what I want to do, it's not like my own writing. So it took me a while to figure out that sort of balance between having a full time job that's like demanding all my creative you know, most of my creative energy and then figuring out that balance of still writing my own stuff and trying to continue my own career beyond Rodney.

So I think again, like it's just something that you have to figure out by, by doing, and it took me a little bit. So I maybe would have, just said just put it in your calendar, like two hours a day, whatever it is, even if you don't get to it, or even if you just do 30 minutes, like just set a reminder in your phone or in your calendar that goes off every single day to write.

Lorien: Yes. I found this incredibly difficult at Pixar, right? I was on up for three and a half years as script. So I was doing you know like that job is intense. And I didn't write for those three and a half years. Because it was consuming, and I was good at it. And the satisfaction I had from being good at something, didn't, wasn't inspiring me to write.

And then I was, you know, every job I had, it's the same thing. I was good at it, and I brought all of myself to it, and I wasn't doing that much writing. And it was a bummer. But I, I had to figure out how to do that. And the way I figured out how to do it is I had to realize that I wanted to tell my own stories more than I wanted to feel good about telling other people's stories.

And I'm so proud of the work I did. And I'm so glad I got the opportunity to do that and work with those people. But I had to, I had to find myself as a writer again. I think that's the danger of we feel so good. I'm sure you feel so good being in this job and it's such a great opportunity. And yes, you got to keep writing on your own, not do what I did, which is not right for many, many years.

So that's such a good thing to have in perspective and such great advice that you have to find the time to do it so that when the call comes and they said, let me read your you have one be prepared. 

Jeff: That's great advice. And I think connected to that, Anthony, like talking about, you know, reading the room and understanding politically how to split time between the creative energy you're hired to expend for your boss and contributing to your own creative life.

Is there ever space to pitch him on your work? Does that conversation ever happen? And if so, like, how are you navigating that? I'm sure it's different person to person, but that's the thing we're always thinking about when we're serving. I mean, we shouldn't always be thinking about that, but that's always the voice in the back of our head.

You know, is, are there opportunities for me to hustle a little bit here? I'm not phrasing this question well, I'd love for you to just jump in. 

Anthony: No, no, I gotcha. Yeah, I think I haven't he's, he's read some of my stuff and he's gotten me opportunities to write so he's been really, really great in that front.

I think it's interesting with him because he's in so many he has so much going on, he's really the busiest person I've ever met. He has TV, movies, he has a podcast, he does comic books, graphic novels he's all over. So, no, I don't, I don't... 

Lorien: So is that, he can do all this stuff because he has two assistants, or does he have more time than the rest of us have? Is there some magic trick to count more hours than, than, like, how does he do that? 

Anthony: I don't know, but he somehow does. 

Lorien: He's like the Taylor Swift of TV. 

Anthony: Yeah, and all, and all the stuff is, yeah, and all the stuff is quality and good, and, you know, I mean, again, he is a workhorse and I'm so grateful to see the different, you know, see the different areas that even I could go into if I, if I want to as a writer.

There's so many different mediums beyond just writing film and TV. Like again, like even for a narrative podcast or a comic book or graphic novel, stuff like that. So, to answer your question, no, I don't, I don't typically pitch him something. I mean, if, if something comes across. My desk through my like network or something that I think might be he might be interested in i'll pass that along.

But no typically I try to keep it like pretty professional with him in that sense, and like I said, he's brought me opportunities and gotten me in front of some people and he knows what I like and my goals and kind of, the sort of genres that I write in and stuff so he's been great on that front.

But I, you know, my job as an assistant isn't to try to like add more stress to him or more things for him to look at, so I'm, I'm pretty selective when I when I do that just because I know how much he has going on and just from his own free will, he's just given me opportunities beyond hiring me. 

Jeff: Can you be a little more specific? I know we're going to wrap up soon, but what does that mean? He’s, you've, he's gotten you opportunities. He knows what you write. Like just what does that look like? That's very, that's interesting. And that's probably not the case for every showrunner's assistant.

Anthony: Yeah, yeah, I mean, like he knows that I really like writing genre and like horror and stuff like that. So he's got me kind of like an interview with this podcast studio that was looking for a horror writer for a podcast. And I did the whole like interview and did you know, wrote a mock episode as a pitch.

I didn't end up getting it, but that's okay. And because again, he just, he got me in front of that and I would have never got that opportunity without him. So yeah, just, just stuff like that. And then, yeah, yeah. I mean, that's pretty much how I've gotten all that. I've been hired to write a couple things.

I'm not repped or anything. It's been all through just my own network and meeting people. And yeah, just kind of what we said, like figuring out what. Like being prepared when an opportunity arises. 

Lorien: Yeah, I mean it sounds like you are repped a little bit. Like, you're getting the same as the rest of us, right?

Like you're getting jobs through your network and then, you know, my manager will set up a general for me, so it sounds like he's setting up like an opportunity. It's you know, you're repped by him, he's advocating for you, which is what a rep does. Basically. 

Anthony: Yeah. Yeah. 

Lorien: That's great. Jonathan, our guest on the “Writers' Assistant in the Writer's Room” segment has a question to ask you.

Jonathan: I'm curious to hear how you actually, digging more into like how you actually find time to, to write. You know, I, I'd always been told when I was starting, you know, you have to be, you have to be writing every day. I, I don't. I think I'm I think I'm tired. I think I work a lot. I think writing is hard. I don't always enjoy writing. 

So I think the reality of actually finding time to write, you know, while you're also doing, you know, a demanding job is really tough. So I'm just curious to sort of hear you talk a little bit about your, just your mentality and like approach around, you know, your writing, writing practice, I guess.

Anthony: Yeah, I mean, it's a day to day thing, you know, some days I don't like writing either. 

Lorien: I don't know, you guys, I love every second of it. I can't wait. I love all my writing time, and I, you, I write every day, all the time. 

Jeff: You're the one, okay. 

Lorien: No, lies! Lies! 

Jonathan: This question is coming from, you know, I have the pleasure of working with these lovely folks every, every week, and we ask people, you know, in Adventures in Screenwriting, right? We start every show with that, and they often talk about what they're writing, you know, that week. And most of the time I have not written anything and it's, it's… I feel shame. Like it's, it's embarrassing sometimes to, to say, but I think the reality is that writing is hard and there isn't always time to do it.

So I'm just always interested in hearing, you know, people talk about how they manage to do it. 

Anthony: Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I think it, it depends. I mean, like we've all said, we don't necessarily love to write every single day, and it's a hard thing to do and get motivated to do every day. I think what I try to do is just make sure that I'm doing something every day that's helping my career progress in the right direction, hopefully.

Whether that's learning something new, or reading a new script, or listening to The Screenwriting Life podcast, you know, there's so many different ways. 

Lorien: Let me just say you can't count that as writing. I'm, sorry everybody. You can't count listening to this podcast as writing time. Yes, you're learning I'm, just gonna come out and say it. You're like writing time or listening to the podcast. Jeff's going to kill me for saying this. 

Jeff: It is no, listen... 

Lorien: No, listen, but I, I think it's true. I agree with you. It's helping. It's inspiring, but it can't be an either or thing. 

Jeff: Yeah. 

Lorien: Right. I think, you know, oh my God, it's happening. You're like the guest. Sorry. I don't know why I'm getting all riled up.

Okay, you're just... I'm getting excited. Okay, go ahead. You're gonna do something that's writing time, listening to podcasts... 

Anthony: Yeah, yeah, just just something. I mean, it's it's been an interesting month, because I'm in actually hard prep for a movie that I wrote that we attached to producer and we went out to the town yesterday. So I've been like - 

Lorien: This is incredible. Congratulations! 

Anthony: Yeah, thank you. Yeah. So I've been like, really hard prep on that. So I really haven't I haven't written anything new or new pages on anything until like yesterday, but again, I was taking notes on this previous script and then I was building the deck and figuring out the business stuff because I'm gonna also be producing if it gets made so you know, like making lists of possible actors, possible line producers, all that. So again, I mean nobody likes doing the business side of things, but also learning that and I'm not in a position where I can just write something and hand it off right now.

Like I have to do a lot of heavy lifting as you always have to do as a writer, but especially being like more of an emerging writer. I have to, you know, put on that hat. So I've been in sort of that mode the last month. But again, I, I try to be, you know, nice to myself in regards to I'm still progressing in the right direction even though I haven't been like, writing as much as I'd like to the last month.

But again, I'm working towards that common goal, no matter what it looks like. I mean, I think again yeah, writing every single day is, is hard. If you can do it for even 30 minutes, that's great. And if you can't, then again, just try to do one thing, whether it's reaching out to somebody to try to build your network, or or reading a screenplay. Do something that you can at least learn from or try to start to, to build off of. 

Jeff: That's great. 

Lorien: And you can listen to the podcast. 

Anthony: Yeah. 

Lorien: So it's back on the list. Okay. So, I don't, I don't know where this idea came from that we have to write all every day. You know, when you're working on something, when you're getting paid, the motivation is there more strongly to write every day to meet the deadline, because it feels more like a job.

That's a reality for a lot of us. Something I've been doing lately working with writers is you have to pick a realistic and attainable goal so you don't feel shame when you get to the end of the week, whatever that marker is for you, Saturday, Monday, Friday. Even if that goal is, I'm going to write for 10 minutes on Wednesday.

There, you've written that week. 10 minutes! We can all do 10 minutes. We can all do 10 minutes. There are 10 minutes in one day in a week, right? And then you can say, okay, I'm going to do two weeks or two days a week. And then you can say, I'm going to maybe do that for 15 minutes, but set a timer. I'll write for 10 minutes.

And if you want to write more, go ahead. But like 10 minutes, that's like writing on the back of a receipt in the school line drop off that is, you know, writing on your phone in your car. It's, it's 10 minutes. And then you can avoid that shamey shame. So Jonathan, 10 minutes on Wednesdays, which is podcast day.

You can do it. 

Jonathan: I was going to say, “That's podcast day!” I fully last night, I listened to, I was listening to an old episode of TSL. I listened to the Jodie Foster episode. I had my bag of Nerds Gummy Clusters next to me, and fully thought this, "Is this? I'm doing it. Like, I'm writing. This is my writing time." Which I now realize totally is... 

Lorien: It can be a part of your writing time but you need to actually be creating putting words somewhere... down documenting something. 

Jonathan: There's a quote from Dorothy Parker. She said, "I hate writing. I love having written." 

Lorien: Yes, correct. 

Jonathan: Totally, totally relate to don't always enjoy the process, but there is nothing better than finishing a script. It feels amazing. 

Lorien: It's great to finish a script. It's also great to have written for 10 minutes on one day.

That's all I'm asking everybody. That is a realistic and attainable goal for anyone out there. Right? And yes, you're doing, and Anthony, congratulations on your movie. That is epic and amazing and so cool. And you are doing all the heavy lifting. I will challenge you though, you've got 10 minutes. 

Anthony: Yeah, no, you're right.

Lorien: Even if it's just, "I have an idea that takes place on a playground, I'm going to come up with a list of ten funny things that can happen on a playground," right? Even if it's just that, you're still making your brain churn on something. And that is a realistic and attainable goal. You all three have been on “Lorien McKenna Yells At You.”

Oh, God, this has been a great episode. I've gotten to rant, talk about myself. It's been amazing. 

Anthony: One other thing. Sorry, you guys can cut this. You guys might have already talked about this at some point too. But one thing that I like when younger or like people coming out of college will reach out to me a lot on LinkedIn and stuff.

And I'll usually, you know, if I have the time in the week, I'll take 15 minutes and just answer some of their questions or whatever. And a lot of them ask how similar questions, like, how do you write? I think a really interesting thing that, that you could do is, typically like an open writing assignment or if you have to write a pilot or something you have a block of time to do that so if you pick a date and that's your start date and you give yourself the six weeks to write because that's what it would be like if you got a job and again, like that draft is like another thing that I've learned from Rodney is like you're gonna get notes.

It doesn't matter how good it is. So just like finish, you're going to get notes. You want it to yeah, okay, make it good. But you're going to get notes. But I think also training yourself to be able to like, okay, like the business, I don't have two years to write a script. Like they're going to want it in six weeks.

Jeff: That's good advice. 

Anthony: Yeah. So just giving yourself a timeline to, again, like it might play in a little bit to the if you don't hit it, then, you like, won't feel good. But I think again, if it'll, it'll help you at least maybe write every day. That's something that I also... 

Lorien: Yeah. I think we all have a different approach and different expectations of ourselves too, to be fair.

Anthony: Yeah. 

Lorien: I do not expect myself to write every day because that is unrealistic and unattainable. And I don't want to feel shame. Cause I don't like that feeling.

I have so loved having you on the show and chatting with you. And I love how comprehensive your experience is on how to take an idea from the beginning, working with the showrunner, like seeing it all the way through.

I mean, what a great opportunity. That's so cool. All these jobs are really cool. And then now that we've solved the mystery of the apostrophe, I feel really good inside. I feel like I've accomplished my writing for the day. Yeah, really good. So thank you so much for being on the show. 

Anthony: Yeah, thank you guys for having me. This was great. 

Lorien: And remember, you are not alone, and keep writing!